Tuesday, 1 November 2011

a small step on the path to nationhood

if only this was a clip of the actual UN agreeing to accept palestinian nationhood. still it's something. it's democracy, without veto. which is what we should expect from the UN as a whole. it seems pointless to me that certain countries of the west are so keen to forcefully and violently bring democracy to other countries in the world, but are quite happy themselves to participate in an institution where they have an undemocratic veto power.

american foreign policy on this issue is so incredibly appalling that i don't know where to start. cutting their funding to unesco because they don't like the outcome of a democratic vote? the american administration is showing (yet again) that it doesn't, in practice, care for democracy. at least the other countries who chose to abstain or to vote against accept that they lost the vote. if a country can't even do that, how can it even begin to act as if it's some kind of champion for democracy.

i understand that the administration is bound by laws passed in 1990 & 1994 (the latter in the clinton era?), but there's not even an attempt to change these laws. both parties have condemned the vote. that last just sickens me - all the manoeuvering to try to even let people have a say on this issue is, again, counter to everything that democracy stands for.

for the palestinians, this is a crumb though a significant one. interesting to see that both china and india supported the move. india has a historical position of recognising palestine & palestinian struggles. mahatma gandhi was a strong supporter of palestinian rights. in recent years, there had been a change from that position so i'm really heartened to see a positive vote by india on this one.

also great is the labour party's policy of supporting the palestinian bid for UN recognition. it's a brave and clear statement:

"The United States President, Barack Obama, recognises that Palestinians deserve their own state and that for its part, Israel deserves recognition and normal relations with its neighbours.

"The Labour Party agrees with that, but the United States' intention to veto the Palestinian Authority's application for membership at the Security Council will not advance better international relations in our view," said Maryan Street.

national is typically refusing to commit. what they're waiting for, i don't know. either you support a people's right to self-determination and self-government or you don't. it's not that difficult.Link


Anonymous said...

For someone that runs diversity classes, you sure do like to bag one country, one political ideology and one people a lot in your posts.

stargazer said...

um, i don't "run diversity classes", i'm a chartered accountant. and from your comment, i'd say that you haven't read much of my blog if that's what you think. i have a view of the world, and i'm going to call people/countries out when they've behaved badly. if that's a problem for you, there's a whole wide world of the internet where you can better spend your time.

Anonymous said...

The thing is, It's not so much calling out a country when they have behaved badly (in your opinion.)

It's more like ripping into the USA or West no matter what they do.

You even had a problem with people doing Memorials on 9/11, asking why people don't remember other disasters that happen in other countries.

The truth is, you were peeved that people would dare give sympathy to a country that you hate.

Well guess what, Americans living in NewZealand have just as much right to be here as you, no more, no less. Their culture is just as important to them as yours is to you.

I thought someone that has been involved in diversity classes could see that.

But it's not about diversity for you, is it? It comes down to ideology it always does.

Ar least be honest about it.

stargazer said...

so you're the person who has been peddling lies about what i said on your own blog. i did not have a problem with people "doing memorials" at all, and you very well know it. so why don't you either read my post on that subject again and inform yourself properly of what i said, or even just read through the comment i left on your blog. if you try to put lies like that on this blog again, i won't be letting them through.

guess what - i never said anything about american rights to be living here and i don't have a problem with it. guess what - i recongise that there are plenty of americans who disagree with the actions of their government. guess what - in the piece i wrote about 9/11, all the blogs i quoted from where american writers, writing in america, and disagreeing with what was happening there. guess what - you don't get to speak for americans. guess what - american foreign policy is just as open for criticism as any other country's foreign policy.

but the biggest joke: you lie about what i said then try to talk about honesty!! i think a little introspection by you is called for here.

Anonymous said...

Why was it then the only memorial services that you have ever questioned has been about 9/11?

I wrote an opinion stating that your blog on 9/11 wasn't so much about remembering all tragic events around the world, but more about your anger at people giving sympathy to the USA, and I stand by that.

Come on now, be honest with yourself, you hate America and you hate Americans, sure you use a handful of American Bloggers to justify your point, but what it comes down to is your ideology.

You of course have the right to write anything you want, (be thankful you live in a western country for that) just as I have to.

IMHO your posts are written in a such a subtle way to hide what your really thinking.

stargazer said...

you don't have to live in a western country - no-one is stopping you from leaving and there are plenty of non-western countries that will allow you to live there.

you wrote an opinion that is a clear lie. i see that you are unable to take responsibility for your own words. you have not given a single piece of evidence to show that i hate america and americans - just blatantly untrue assertions pulled out of your own head because you don't actually want to debate any of the issues i've raised. you don't make any comments about the rightness and wrongness of the actions i've written about in this post.

[as an aside - if you actually go back and read my 9/11 post properly - which you obviously refuse to do, because then you wouldn't be able to so ignorantly and deliberately misrepresent what i've said - my issue was with the amount of media coverage given to one memorial as opposed to others. if there were any other memorials that were given that amount of media coverage then i'd certainly be moved to write about that.]

let's be honest - you are trying to divert from the real issues by trying (and failing badly) to portray me as a person who hates an entire country of people. and it's funny how you choose to dismiss people with valid arguments and view points as "a handful of bloggers", still failing to address any of the points they raise.

it's a nasty little diversionary tactic anon, and you do it so well. which is why i'm allowing your comments through - so people can see who is really having trouble with the truth and who is really full of hate in this exchange. and it isn't me.

Anonymous said...

Lets be honest here, I pretty much think, that I could go through everything you have ever written and not find one positive post about America, without something tagged at the end of it to criticize the USA.

All your posts about America paint it in a negative light, that is why I think you hate America.

If you want to talk about 9/11, well as much as you would hate to admit it, it was the biggest news story of our generation, that is why it got the coverage It did.

A lot of kiwis were touched by it and have connections to the USA, that is why there were so many memorial services.

You have a problem with the States, and no matter what subject post you do, there is a always a dig at the USA thrown in there.

So its not a nasty little tactic as you put it.

I just don't think you should judge a country before you have lived in it.

stargazer said...

I pretty much think

evidence please - not much of it can be seen here.

I could go through everything you have ever written

then do that first instead of making stuff up

All your posts about America paint it in a negative light

but you've just admitted you haven't read all of them, so how can you possible make a categorical statement like that? you are the one making accusations here. if you can't back them up then you shouldn't make them - it really doesn't reflect well on you.

as much as you would hate to admit it, it was the biggest news story of our generation

really? more than the boxing day tsunami? more than the half a million children dying in iraq because of sanctions? more than all the people killed in iraq & aghanistan? dude, just because our media don't give equal coverage to other events doesn't mean they don't have equal or more new value. that's the point that you can't seem to accept. there is an inherent bias in media coverage and it has a hugely damaging impact. that was the point i was making, and you know it. but you don't want to debate so you attack me as anti-american instead.

You have a problem with the States, and no matter what subject post you do, there is a always a dig at the USA thrown in there

evidence please - and you had better quote from every single one of the hundreds of posts i've written, both here and at the hand mirror.

I just don't think you should judge a country before you have lived in it.

i have every right to judge the foreign policy of a country, especially when that foreign policy affects the lives of millions of people around the world. as i said, if you have a problem with it, you don't need to be here.

Anonymous said...

My evidence that you hate America is the comment you have just written.

I wish you all the best with your blog, but I wont be coming back or wasting keystrokes here. Cheers.

stargazer said...

aaaannnd a flounce. i did suggest that was your best option in my first response to you, but you persisted with unfounded accusations, lack of any evidence to back your claims and a total inability to argue the actual issues of any of my posts.

that you think my previous comment is any kind of evidence is pretty sad. i have every sympathy with the people who died on 9/11 (who were of a variety of ethnicities & religious affiliations); i totally understand that this event was completely traumatic and i've always said that i believe we should have memorials of that event. all of which you've completely chosen to ignore - i wrote all of these things clearly and explicitly on my 9/11 post.

but to say that this event was "the biggest news story of our generation" shows an incredible lack of empathy, in fact an almost cruel ignoring of the suffering of those in other countries. if that's the way you want to be, that's totally up to you. but i can't respect you for it.

Peer Review said...

“Boxing Day Tsunami”

The Americans were the first to help the Indonesians too as always.

We didn’t hear of much coming from their fellow religionists, the Saudis who should by rights be the richest nation in the world.

But hey you don’t like whites helping browns as per your recent post.
Whites according to you should be helping other ‘whites’ like Bosnians and Chechens and Turks,
most people just go in and help without checking their colour status first.

stargazer said...

wow, attack of the trolls today. except, peer review, you're sounding a lot like the previous anon. regretting the flounce perhaps?

and again, you grossly misrepresent what i said. i don't have a problem with whites helping blacks, nor did i say that whites should ONLY help other whites. - go back and read the post and stop with the lies. you've either got a major problem with reading comprehension or you're a troll who gets kicks out of making stuff up to annoy others. i'm really sorry that you feel you have to spend your time this way, and i hope life gets better for you soon.

as for saudis helping in the boxing day tsunami, they gave $30 million in government funding & $31 million in private donations. sorry that isn't enough for you.

ASD said...

As an American living in N.Z. who personally knows stargazer and who has regular debates with her on a variety of issues,including but by no means limited to American policy and New Zealand policy, she holds no personal ill will towards Americans...but is clearly frustrated with some of my country's decisions. In the free world, she is entitled to her views, I'm entitled to mine and you're entitled to yours...Fortunately, stargazer seems to recognise that and is willing to listen and be quite objective...from your comments it appears you may be limited in this area.

stargazer said...

thanx ASD.

Peer Review said...

*She is entitled to her views*

Exactly, she has the right to free speech, and to drive a car.

The West’s openess and freedoms are being used from within, to attack the very principles that make it open and free.
I am a different 'troll'-such a stupid term.

stargazer said...

well if you don't want to be called a troll, you shouldn't misrepesent what i've said previous posts. not very difficult.

as for "attacking the west", a couple of points: 1. i'm a westerner. 2. i've criticised india, saudi arabia and other countries before on both the blogs i write for. the west is not exempt for criticism because it does some things right. so do eastern countries do plenty of things right, but here you've only criticised and haven't recognised any of their good points. ergo, you're using "western" principles to attack the east. except those principles you talk about aren't western at all, their universal and many of them originated in the east. remember that western culture and traditions were hugely influenced by the east during the renaissance. so that sense of cultural superiority you feel is very much misplaced.

i see you also don't actually want to debate the issues raised in the post, and particularly the lack of democracy within the UN which western countries take advantage of and completely support.

Peer Review said...

Yeah I know we are all supposed to be self-hating westerners now, but I didn’t get the memo.
Divide and rule, I can see you are in it for the long haul.

Demographics is destiny, and when you go to Malaysia and say “you enjoy being in a plurality”, a dishonest word for majority,
then I start to think being a westerner and Nzer is way down your list.
The subtle ways you define yourself are very revealing.

Bringing islamists to democracy , and democracy to islam is a waste of time and lives. The Libyans are already talking sharia and polygamy.

As to democracy in the UN, it has always voted in blocs, cold war and now.
Good luck with Palestine getting their own state anytime soon.. I’m all for it myself.

US Presidents come and go, but the neocons still run the joint and we know who they work for, I am sure we agree on that.

Brett Dale said...

Not sure if you know this, Im not the poster "Peer Review" I posted under "anonymous" this thread.

I have gone back to my blog, and change a couple of posts, (eg your occupation) I have also stated at my blog, that my blog is just my opinion and not a statement of fact.

If you would like anything else changed at my blog, that you deemed to be a statement of fact. let me know.

stargazer said...

Yeah I know we are all supposed to be self-hating westerners now

really? if we discuss things that we're doing wrong in the west, we're self-hating? that's news to me. i always saw it as an act of caring - you only bother trying to improve the things you care about.

when you go to Malaysia and say “you enjoy being in a plurality”, a dishonest word for majority,

dude, seriously, read a dictionary. this comment is just so sadly ignorant that i've been trying to stop myself laughing for the last little while. you've heard of the word "plural" i presume, which means many? and you know that there are significant chunks of chinese, indians and malays living peacefully together in malaysia? which is not to say that i agree with everything the malaysian government does either, for example i wasn't happy with the way they were treating people intending to protest when i was there, and i'm pretty sure i said something to that effect.

Bringing islamists to democracy , and democracy to islam is a waste of time and lives.

but see, that's the whole point about democracy: that people get to choose freely. and if they choose an "islamist" government, then so be it. people don't only get to have democracy when they make choices YOU approve of. they get to make their own choices, regardless of whether you like them or not. and if you don't believe that, then you don't really believe in democracy at all. and it's sad that you give so little value to those lives that were lost.

As to democracy in the UN, it has always voted in blocs, cold war and now.

that's different from the veto power, which is anti-democratic (if that's a word) and really just unacceptable from countries that push democracies on others.

Good luck with Palestine getting their own state anytime soon.. I’m all for it myself.

US Presidents come and go, but the neocons still run the joint and we know who they work for, I am sure we agree on that.

agreement after only 3 comments? not bad! i'm glad we agree on something.

@brett, yes my friend, i suspected it was you. having thought back over it, i think you're the only person whose comments aggravated me on the 9/11 post! thanx for making changes & for your offer - i'll try to get over to your blog in the next couple of days to check them out.